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Throne of Thunder buffs have been applied only for Heroic Versions of both 10m and 25m difficulties.
Two values at one line mention 10m and 25m
[e.g. Health 25%: 396 884,669 -> 10m (1,190,654,010) -> 25m].


Last Stand of the Zandalari

Jin'rokh the Breaker

  • Health +25%: 396,884,669 (1,190,654,010);
  • Melee damage increased by 11%;
  • Conductive Water's Fluidity Nature Damage increased by 125% from 100%;
  • Static Burst damage increased by 15%;
  • Focused Lightning Detonation damage increased by 35%

Horridon

  • Health +11% (+20%): 726,168,105 (2,355,139,800)
  • Melee damage increased by 5%;
  • Amani'shi Beast Shaman's Hex of Confusion's effects now allows players to critically hit themselves (pre-nerf);
  • Double Swipe damage increased by 9%;
  • All adds' health increased by 10%

Council of Elders

  • Health +15% (+19%): 135,420,538 (419,769,651);
  • Living Sand adds health increased by 11% (15%);
  • Blessed Loa Spirit health increased by 15%;
  • Penalty to damage taken from the Shadowed Soul debuff increased to per stack (10MHC only, pre-nerf)

Forgotten Depths

Tortos

  • Health +20%: 383,998,741 (1,200,001,298);
  • Snapping Bite damage increased by 11%;
  • Rockfall spread damage increased by 5%;
  • Whirl Turtles' health increased by 11%

Megaera

  • Each head's health increased +15% (reverting nerf): 56,234,632 (183,379,253);
  • Pool of flames damage during Cinders increased by 11%;
  • Ignite Flesh DoT damage increased by 20%;
  • Torrent of Ice damage increased by 11%;
  • Nether Wyrm health increased by 5% (13%)

Ji-Kun

  • Health increased by 22%: 439,626,096 (1,318,878,288);
  • Nest Guardians' physical damage increased by 11%;
  • Fledglings' damage increased by 11%;
  • Infected Talons ability damage increased by 10%;
  • Caw ability damage increased by 11%

Halls of Flesh-Shaping

Durumu the Forgotten

  • Health increased by 15%: 451,401,795 (1,354,205,385);
  • Damage dealt increased by 6%;
  • Obliterate timer reduced by 70 seconds

Primordius

  • Health increased by 25% (reverting 11% nerf): 322,741,380 (968,224,140);
  • Viscous Horrors health increased by 15% (pre-nerf)

Dark Animus

  • Health +18%: 339,840,017 (1,061,988,797);
  • Interrupting Jolt damage increased by 6% (pre-nerf);
  • Explosive Slam damage increased by 11% (pre-nerf)

Pinnacle of Storms

Iron Qon

  • All Quilen health increased by 11% (15% for 25HC);
  • Ice Tomb health increased by 11%;
  • Fist Smash damage increased by 8%

Twin Consorts

  • Suen and Lu’in health increased by 22%: 378,845,392 (976,910,309)

Lei Shen

  • Health +12%: 650,158,148 (1,957,313,074);
  • All conduits' abilities damage increased by 5%;
  • Ball Lightning damage increased by 11%;
  • Violent Gale Winds damage increased by 10%

 

Every challenge comes with a reward, that’s why Clutch of Ji-Kun mount will now additionally have increased drop chance from Heroic Lei Shen (until the next raid content), 50% for 10M and 2 guaranteed drops for 25M version of the raid. The drop rate of the mount on the normal version will not be changed until 5.4 content patch.

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  • Crysis pinned this topic

Changes look sick for the most part

Quote

Snapping Bite damage increased;


Hope you fixed it not being reduced by armor or tanks are gonna flop XD

Quote

Durumu the Forgotten

Should probably look at increasing the Wall HP more than anything due to the hitbox bug making the walls a complete joke with warlock/hunters.

Quote

Explosive Slam damage increased (pre-nerf)

This one might be a tad rough...

 

Edited by Malvanis2
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2 minutes ago, Malvanis2 said:

Changes look sick for the most part


Hope you fixed it not being reduced by armor or tanks are gonna flop XD

This one might be a tad rough...

 

We'll figure.

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33 minutes ago, Malvanis2 said:

Hope you fixed it not being reduced by armor or tanks are gonna flop XD

That's not a bug, Snapping Bite shouldn't be reduced by armor. It does give increased vengeance because of that, though.

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1 hour ago, Crysis said:

Throne of Thunder buffs have been applied only for Heroic Versions of both 10m and 25m difficulties.
Two values at one line mention 10m and 25m
[e.g. Health 25%: 396 884,669 -> 10m (1,190,654,010) -> 25m].


Last Stand of the Zandalari

Jin'rokh the Breaker

  • Health +25%: 396,884,669 (1,190,654,010);
  • Melee damage increased;
  • Conductive Water's Nature Damage increased;
  • Static Burst damage increased;
  • Focused Lightning Detonation damage increased

Horridon

  • Health +11% (+20%): 726,168,105 (2,355,139,800)
  • Melee damage increased;
  • Amani'shi Beast Shaman's Hex of Confusion's effects now allows players to critically hit themselves (pre-nerf);
  • Double Swipe damage increased;
  • All adds' health increased

Council of Elders

  • Health +15% (+19%): 135,420,538 (419,769,651);
  • Living Sand adds health increased;
  • Blessed Loa Spirit health increased;
  • Penalty to damage taken from the Shadowed Soul debuff increased to per stack (10MHC only, pre-nerf)

Forgotten Depths

Tortos

  • Health +20%: 383,998,741 (1,200,001,298);
  • Snapping Bite damage increased;
  • Rockfall spread damage increased;
  • Whirl Turtles' health increased

Megaera

  • Each head's health increased +15% (reverting nerf): 56,234,632 (183,379,253);
  • Pool of flames damage during Cinders increased;
  • Ignite Flesh DoT damage increased;
  • Torrent of Ice damage increased;
  • Nether Wyrm health increased

Ji-Kun

  • Health increased by 22%: 439,626,096 (1,318,878,288);
  • Nest Guardians' physical damage increased;
  • Fledglings' damage increased;
  • Infected Talons ability damage increased;
  • Caw ability damage increased

Halls of Flesh-Shaping

Durumu the Forgotten

  • Health increased by 15%: 451,401,795 (1,354,205,385);
  • Damage dealt increased;
  • Obliterate timer reduced by 70 seconds

Primordius

  • Health increased by 25% (reverting 11% nerf): 322,741,380 (968,224,140);
  • Viscious Horrors health increased (pre-nerf)

Dark Animus

  • Health +18%: 339,840,017 (1,061,988,797);
  • Interrupting Jolt damage increased (pre-nerf);
  • Explosive Slam damage increased (pre-nerf)

Pinnacle of Storms

Iron Qon

  • All Quilen health increased by 11% (15% for 25HC);
  • Ice Tomb health increased;
  • Fist Smash damage increased

Twin Consorts

  • Suen and Lu’in health increased by 22%: 378,845,392 (976,910,309)

Lei Shen

  • Health +12%: 650,158,148 (1,957,313,074);
  • All conduits' abilities damage increased;
  • Ball Lightning damage increased;
  • Violent Gale Winds damage increased

 

Every challenge comes with a reward, that’s why Clutch of Ji-Kun mount will now additionally have increased drop chance from Heroic Lei Shen (until the next raid content), 50% for 10M and 2 guaranteed drops for 25M version of the raid. The drop rate of the mount on the normal version will not be changed until 5.4 content patch.

ruin the "blizzlike" of the game

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Okay, so some real feedback with no flame:

Unrelated to buffs:

A. Any source on Tortos Snapping Bite not being affected by armor? No guide/changelog/spelltooltip mentions it + all I found was some comment saying it takes -60% tank's health pool angle for every hit (which with current hp and dmg done would be accurate with armor reduction - 700k strike, ~50% reduction avg among tank specs counting armor, 600k hp on early ToT).

Related to buffs (talking 10m exclusively):

1. Jinrokh - ability buffs seem to be balanced, but I am really worried about this HP buff, this will be that fight where u need to have all 10 on board not dying (and while that concept is alright, am not sure if it won't create a wall for worse groups that will cause them to ragequit). Overall blizz has a strong policy for having 1st boss easier compared to the rest (and also the history of fuck-ups on that part) and to me, it seems like Jinrokh in the current state would not make it to a list of bosses that should be progressed in the first week of HC release for a guild that raids ~6h-7h per week.

2. Horridon - so far it seems okay (idk about this add hp increase), but again we see some strong requirements on having everyone doing a proper job. Add HP buff will need to be tested by actual groups to see how it feels. I assume it is a manageable buff.

3. Council - cheese strategy with killing Frost King will be harder, overall I think it will be a solid and decently difficult fight.

4. Tortos - 20% hp buff seems to be big in itself, I don't see much point in buffing whirl turtles health pools -> it will force guilds to go with 1mdps on early progress. If Snapping Bite won't be affected by armor it will be kinda problematic too. For less hardcore groups this is gonna be simply too hard fight. And I assume that with not knowing how high shells hp buff is, I saw too many raids where having them killed was problematic even without any buffs (obviously rather in guilds that are ranked on spots 10+, but still, they are really important part of the population of the server).

5. Megaera - Reasonable buffs, nothing to address

6. Jikun - 22% health buff + requirement of having healer on the platform (caused by higher dmg on nests) is buffing this fight by a decent margin, overall I think it might be pretty hard now, but should be killable, maybe with higher gear, but it will be guilds' responsibility to adjust progress order. Imo fine.

7.  Durumu - seems fine. Tho am curious if this dmg buff refers only to his melee strikes or lightning phase abilities as well (with hp buff and lightning phase buff it might be a bit unbalanced)

8. Primordius - seems fine.

9. DA - I don't know pre-nerf IJ value (but I guess it got nerfed for a reason) so I note it down as a pretty strong buff in the first place, HP increase with really high Explosive Slam dmg is total overkill, and would make this fight barely killable. ES dmg increase is pushing comp towards 3tank, while HP increase kinda doesn't allow it (since u won't use these tanks to whore dmg anyway). ES is not a consistent enough source of vengeance to make a difference with this 18% HP buff. I really think that the HP buff and IJ buff are enough to cause some guilds to spend weeks more there, and the ES buff might make it unkillable for most of the raiding guilds.

10. Qon - seems balanced to me, this 11% should make it a bit less free kill, but better guilds won't have any issue there, since they will outdps it straight away.

11. Consort - considering how bad this fight is for any potential buffs due to the complexity of interactions, I think this is an alright buff.

12. Lei - I am not sure how buffed static will look, but I just hope it won't one-shot two stacked players, ball lightning damage depends on the actual values, so it's hard to address for now. Violent Gale seems like pushing for 2tank strat, but in reality it will just make some specs stronger. Overall I think it won't be too hard, but probably still way harder.

TLDR: - from a 10m perspective it seems fine/balanced with a few exceptions: Jinrokh might be too hard for early prog (and early prog is kinda when u want to do him), Tortos seems too hard, and DA seems unkillable by standard grp of ppl that didn't progress ToT 5 times already. My suggestion would be to reduce/revert the HP buff on Jinrokh, remove the HP buff on shells on Tortos + remove either the HP buff or the ES buff from DA (imo ES buff is more problematic since that would cause some guilds to pick 3tanks for 10m, and that is pretty much always harder to plan and make happen without making anyone feeling fucked).

It is a personal opinion based on strong T15 XP with a lot of hrs spent in logs, theorycrafting, and playing with different groups with a variety of skilled and non-skilled ppl.

Taking a look at 25m buffs, this is a whole new topic and I am unsure how many weeks it will take groups to take Leishen kill, but with current hate on DC chats, I already doubt it will look like it is now. 

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1 hour ago, Kesee said:

A. Any source on Tortos Snapping Bite not being affected by armor? No guide/changelog/spelltooltip mentions it + all I found was some comment saying it takes -60% tank's health pool angle for every hit (which with current hp and dmg done would be accurate with armor reduction - 700k strike, ~50% reduction avg among tank specs counting armor, 600k hp on early ToT).

https://bug.tauriwow.com/index.php?do=details&task_id=12015

This plus opening literally anything from WCL (yes, we are subbed, yes, I checked).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/k7b63chG4F8zMYZ1#fight=14&type=damage-taken&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24any%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24135251&view=events

In this report from 2014 july 24, for example, there are lines where a SoO geared warrior tank, unbuffed, takes 492k from the spell, whose base damage is ~920k. Therefore, it is impossible for it to be affected by armor. 492k / 0.75 / 0.9 / 0.8 for Def Stance, Weakened Blows and the 20% nerf, respectively, is 910k.

Yes, we do always have a source for when we make a spell ignore armor.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kesee said:

4. Tortos - 20% hp buff seems to be big in itself, I don't see much point in buffing whirl turtles health pools -> it will force guilds to go with 1mdps on early progress. If Snapping Bite won't be affected by armor it will be kinda problematic too. For less hardcore groups this is gonna be simply too hard fight. And I assume that with not knowing how high shells hp buff is, I saw too many raids where having them killed was problematic even without any buffs (obviously rather in guilds that are ranked on spots 10+, but still, they are really important part of the population of the server).

Turtles' health has increased by roughly 11% from base 5.6M. (edit: this is 10MHC value)

 

1 hour ago, Kesee said:

9. DA - I don't know pre-nerf IJ value (but I guess it got nerfed for a reason) so I note it down as a pretty strong buff in the first place, HP increase with really high Explosive Slam dmg is total overkill, and would make this fight barely killable. ES dmg increase is pushing comp towards 3tank, while HP increase kinda doesn't allow it (since u won't use these tanks to whore dmg anyway). ES is not a consistent enough source of vengeance to make a difference with this 18% HP buff. I really think that the HP buff and IJ buff are enough to cause some guilds to spend weeks more there, and the ES buff might make it unkillable for most of the raiding guilds.

Dark Animus was reverted to its pre-nerf state, and no additional buffs were added besides health increase, expect the same damage as in all 10MHC first kill videos. In detail IJ increased by 6%, ES increased by 11%.

 

1 hour ago, Kesee said:

1. Jinrokh - ability buffs seem to be balanced, but I am really worried about this HP buff, this will be that fight where u need to have all 10 on board not dying (and while that concept is alright, am not sure if it won't create a wall for worse groups that will cause them to ragequit). Overall blizz has a strong policy for having 1st boss easier compared to the rest (and also the history of fuck-ups on that part) and to me, it seems like Jinrokh in the current state would not make it to a list of bosses that should be progressed in the first week of HC release for a guild that raids ~6h-7h per week.

It's understandable where that concern is coming from, we are looking forward to seeing what the guilds trying out the raid on PTR say about the tuning.

Keep in mind that we are going to monitor the raid progression and adjust difficulty along the way to allow more players to progress further.

Edited by Tsu
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On 3/20/2024 at 9:05 PM, Kesee said:

1. Jinrokh - ability buffs seem to be balanced, but I am really worried about this HP buff, this will be that fight where u need to have all 10 on board not dying (and while that concept is alright, am not sure if it won't create a wall for worse groups that will cause them to ragequit). Overall blizz has a strong policy for having 1st boss easier compared to the rest (and also the history of fuck-ups on that part) and to me, it seems like Jinrokh in the current state would not make it to a list of bosses that should be progressed in the first week of HC release for a guild that raids ~6h-7h per week.

 

Thats not really relevant in MoP where you dont have to clear the previous bosses to access most of the later Heroic bosses.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Discoligh said:

why don't you add in something that raiders actually raid for, as the reward for increased difficulty. 
who cares about some shit mount you can get from jikun HC or bmah, or just have from mistblade1.

 

What is it that you raid for? All feedback is greatly valued for us in the future.

Edited by Tsu
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23 hours ago, Tsu said:

What is it that you raid for? All feedback is greatly valued for us in the future.

Maybe like other servers where they give an extra piece of loot/tier piece instead of making the ji-kun mount drop from lei shen. Also 50 coins pls ty

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On 3/23/2024 at 3:45 PM, malvanis said:

Thats not really relevant in MoP where you dont have to clear the previous bosses to access most of the later Heroic bosses.

Is that twitch.tv/malvanis professional Valorant streamer? 👀

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On 3/24/2024 at 3:39 PM, Tsu said:

What is it that you raid for? All feedback is greatly valued for us in the future.

The most useful to fight against this could be increased TF drop rate, but honestly I think any perk could be kinda unbalanced, I mean any perk that you give to the player will make it easier, nonsense make it "harder".

Edited by Chelsad
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/24/2024 at 3:39 PM, Tsu said:

What is it that you raid for? All feedback is greatly valued for us in the future.

Well most of us raid for fun and items. I would ask to remove trash mobs from ToT since every trash in that raid is a pain and huge waste of time especially bridge/DA trash (but knowing that this can be controversial and they can drop some loot) nerf their hp or damage, is not uncommon that people wipe more on trash then in some bosses.
  *You could give 3 items instead of 2 for 10 man or at least in tier bosses (2 items plus tier).
  * Increase thunderforged drops on 10 man, since is way easier to drop on 25 then 10.
  That are my suggestions for 10 man. Don't do 25 raids so no opinion on that.

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On 3/25/2024 at 6:55 PM, Pilotbitch said:

Maybe like other servers where they give an extra piece of loot/tier piece instead of making the ji-kun mount drop from lei shen. Also 50 coins pls ty

Additional loot will be discussed this week.

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