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Burning Crusade Endgame Fire Mage Compendium

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Hey guys, 

If there are excalibur server players you might know me as Alodia. I dont want to boast myself, but you should know who is the author. I have spent 5 years as mage in hardcore guilds, we cleared SWP in under 1h on several occassions, I also overdpsed M'uru several times, max Brutallus dps was above 3.3k (lucky crits) but I was doing 2.9k+ every time ..And I was a scorch slave 😄

 

 

(I ruined cooldowns at the end because the kill was too fast and I didnt adjust)

My favorite bossfight as mage 🙂

 


I decided to share my old mage spreadsheet. All the guides I found on the internet present something as best without data to back it up and every guide tells something different... so I made pretty much rawr in excel where you can check all the calculations yourself (maybe I did a mistake somewhere, but the calculated DPS matches my experience)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sd7kuunesHqYtOPo7apTy2QHi_kUi4oO/edit?usp=drive_link

 

The sheet calculates crits based on bernoulli distribution. With bernoulli distribution I realised, that as long as you have less than 50% crit, its more likely to score less, than is your rating. Above 50% you will be scoring more. Even though its possible to achieve 50% crit, it would mean a lot of sacrifices tho and its not worth it, but maybe it will make ele shamans happy.

I dont think it calculates hits, so just get hitcapped as priority.

Back then I didnt know that the spell power coefficient is dependant on base casting time, so I made thousands of hits on dummy with different spell powers and then averaged it 😄

image.thumb.jpeg.2c04f09f8fa089a53eedf874b3b425e0.jpeg

 

you can compare 2 builds with each other. You basically pick gear (with bis enchants already), gems, set fight lenght, buffs, the 80 at the top means drums of battle (yes, we all had drums)

points to calculate mean "how much the equivalence points would change if I had x more of the sp/haste/crit"

You will most likely need to plug your own gear choices, to do so, just follow the logic in item tabs. Put there gear with best in slot enchants.

image.thumb.jpeg.6c2844a1bfd442fbb123e29389ca4ada.jpeg

Then you need to put the same name into the main tab dropdown menu. It works like this: F and G checks if the item is picked in main tab (1), multiplies it by either 1 or 0 and then it just sums up the values at the bottom. Sorry but im not going to do it 😄

Or just ignore the sheet and stack spell power and ignore this. Haste and SP and crit are very similar, but more haste = more mana, crit has diminishing returns till 50%..

 

Gear is somewhat important, but more important is to spam properly (put fireball on mouse wheel up and down) also its crucial to time your cooldowns, mages do main portion of their dps below 20%, so dont be like me at brut and time it properly. When you dont have Veins and you take damage then wait with trinkets till you dont if possible to avoid pushback.. 

Oh and whats up with arcane mages here? Is there some mechanic im not aware of? I tried arcane with scorch as a filler (most efficient dmg spell) but I did WAY less dps even when I just spammed arcane blasts... and asking for 5 innervates on a fight isnt really fair.

Edit: I did calculations for arcane later in spicy comments 

 

My talent tree: https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/talent-calc/mage/-5052021123033312531251-023500001

My custom addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ru5zjvO46SeLJP4ijO6-8tF4bgAEKzSm/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1p6qrqCdZX1_4cOxrAzR06DLdO2Gx8nbt/view?usp=sharing

 

Regards, Hugmancer

Edited by Hugmancer
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its pretty easy, destro wl > fire mage, so u will never get elemental/boomy. and arcane > fire in shadowpriest grp. filler spells for arcane are 3xfrostbolt not scorch.

all in all, do what u want, but a fire mage will objectively mage a raid comp worse.

 

also why u change name from eggsy

'i alone am the honored one'

Netherwing(New) - <Qualified>

Karazhan - <Memeory>

Netherwing(OG) - <Memory>, <Overtuned>, <Top Lads>

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  • Hugmancer changed the title to Endgame Fire Mage Compendium

You are right about locks, they are stronger dps who doesnt need supporting classes to do well. But it doesnt mean mages dont have a spot in raids. Anyways I was overdpsing locks with shadowpriest and ele, they had usually ele and boomy. 

Do you have any numbers or proofs to back up what you say about arcane vs fire? 

Maybe Im wrong, so Id like to see it :) 

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1 hour ago, Zoonara said:

its pretty easy, destro wl > fire mage, so u will never get elemental/boomy. and arcane > fire in shadowpriest grp. filler spells for arcane are 3xfrostbolt not scorch.

all in all, do what u want, but a fire mage will objectively mage a raid comp worse.

 

also why u change name from eggsy

I checked logs of Najentus in BT, its pretty much a fight without movement, also mages can evocate / invis without loss of dps during shield phase.

It didnt convince me tbh

Capturesx.JPG

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3 hours ago, Hugmancer said:

Do you have any numbers or proofs to back up what you say about arcane vs fire? 

 

what proof mate i can show u logs, u gonna say its player issue, i can show u sims where u barely (+10%) beat out arcane mage when in FULL BIS GEAR, its solved game, u can cheese and pump lusts at 20% all u want but until full bis when no one cares, u gonna lose vs arcane.

'i alone am the honored one'

Netherwing(New) - <Qualified>

Karazhan - <Memeory>

Netherwing(OG) - <Memory>, <Overtuned>, <Top Lads>

Zoosmol.png

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16 minutes ago, Zoonara said:

what proof mate i can show u logs, u gonna say its player issue, i can show u sims where u barely (+10%) beat out arcane mage when in FULL BIS GEAR, its solved game, u can cheese and pump lusts at 20% all u want but until full bis when no one cares, u gonna lose vs arcane.

show me then, i want to see calculations for 3 min fight, not some simulations where you dont know how they came up to the numbers. but show me the simulations too

Edited by Hugmancer
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4 hours ago, Zoonara said:

actually thats a 5min fight, here is 3min

image.png.225acf38a9b770a288219ec28cf04029.png

So this is a pure arcane blast spam?

There is no execute for arcane mages. 

Does it take into account cooldowns? The dps didnt change at all. 

What gear did you use? 

Edited by Hugmancer
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I did some calculations. Lets say its a 180 sec fight, with unlimited mana. Average AB hit is 3k, crit is 6k, crit chance is 40%, cast time 1.5 sec

then you do 72 hits and 48 crits, which means 2800 dps. 

 

But how real is that you can keep spamming purely AB for 3 minutes?

 

Good shadow priest does 2k ish dps? 5% from that is 100 mps. Arcane blast costs 480 mana / 1.5 = 320 mps  ... - 100mps = 220 mps

so on 3 min fight its 180 * 220 = 39600 mana  ... thats actually not impossible thanks to evocation 🙂 

 

but on longer fights, lets say 5min its 66k mana, 4 min is 53k mana and that is impossible.

 

So its rather situational, if the fight is short, arcane is actually viable, but on longer fights your dps will drop significantly because of the filler spells unless you get innervates. 

 

Also you get pretty much dmg capped, i did 500 more dps as fire on brutallus.

Edited by Hugmancer
3.5k average hit and 7k crit was too much
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2 minutes ago, Zoonara said:

why u still doing ur napkin math when there is a combatlog on the sim. this is getting stupid, hf with fire 

Because what you share isnt knowledge, but pure speculation/religion and im tired of such people. Im interested in proofs and actual numbers. 

Hf with arcane

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30 minutes ago, Hugmancer said:

Because what you share isnt knowledge, but pure speculation/religion and im tired of such people. Im interested in proofs and actual numbers. 

 

u must be trolling, a sim with thousands of iteration and correct math is "speculation/religion" but ur napkin excelsheet is proof 😄 holy fire mage brain

'i alone am the honored one'

Netherwing(New) - <Qualified>

Karazhan - <Memeory>

Netherwing(OG) - <Memory>, <Overtuned>, <Top Lads>

Zoosmol.png

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12 hours ago, Zoonara said:

u must be trolling, a sim with thousands of iteration and correct math is "speculation/religion" but ur napkin excelsheet is proof 😄 holy fire mage brain

then tell me where is the mistake in my math, I will gladly change my opinion and say arcane is the way. But you just keep throwing salty comments on someone who is actually trying to help the community and who spent years doing theorycrafting. Whats even more sad is that you obviously dont know a thing about it, your research = open website and click a button 😄 my sheet is also based on thousands of casts with different spellpower setups 😉the arcane dmg i only estimated, the problem is mana anyways so it doesnt really matter in my opinion

check Dunning–Kruger effect, you jest emberass yourself

until you show me numbers there is nothing to talk about.

Edited by Hugmancer
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i wanna take u serious, but its too clowny, someone tell me thats a troll.

lets act like its not for one last time and see.

so you go to google.com and type in "wow tbc sim" and then u click on the first link, there u can click mage and do preset bis gear, u can change fight duration, buffs, talents, anything really, cause guess what, this game is 30 years old and ppl figured it out already u dont need to do more theorycrafting (in terms of minmax dps).

now that u did that u can see what i posted earlier, arcane mage in bis gear doing 2.8k dps in a 5min fight and 3.1k dps in a 3min fight.

now comparing that to ur sheet which shows 2.9k dps in a 5min fight, which is higher than arcane! i wont deny simple math (like u do). BUT to reach ur dps u need a suboptimal raidcomp (extra elemental), which is fine, but its overall worse dps.

i have no clue what u on about thousands of casts at different spellpower, the spellcoefficient of fireball is known, google the formula. and u actually only need 1 cast with known spellpower to figure it out.

its like BaseDmg+X*Spellpower=Dmg and then u solve for X, 1 math to figure out what u needed thousands for, gl.

 

u tell me its obvious i have no idea 😄 which is so funny cause u dont even know the correct filler rotation for arcane mage, u talking about scorch LMAO.
 

check Dunning–Kruger effect, you jest emberass yourself

someone once said.

'i alone am the honored one'

Netherwing(New) - <Qualified>

Karazhan - <Memeory>

Netherwing(OG) - <Memory>, <Overtuned>, <Top Lads>

Zoosmol.png

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On 9/28/2023 at 7:44 PM, Zoonara said:

its pretty easy, destro wl > fire mage, so u will never get elemental/boomy. and arcane > fire in shadowpriest grp. filler spells for arcane are 3xfrostbolt not scorch.

all in all, do what u want, but a fire mage will objectively mage a raid comp worse.

 

also why u change name from eggsy

Oh, dont u worry baby boo, iam still here watching your journey thru the internet world xD, keep us entertained 

PS: I really like fire mage!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Logically Fire should be better on longer, buffed fights as it isn't nearly as mana hungry as Arcane can be there and execute phase is longer too. For example I don't see a good reason why anyone would bring Arcane over Fire for fights like Brutallus. Not only Fire should do more damage on its own but it also doesn't need Innervate. No clue what kind of sims Zoonara used but every time I simmed BiS geared SWP mage Fire was always ahead or pretty much same damage. You also have to consider 15% extra Fire damage for your entire raid which can be quite helpful because your raid will often use 2x Enh, warlocks will use Infernals and Resto shamans can pop Fire Elementals too.

PS. Don't sim 3 min fights as it's useless for Netherwing where most fights are buffed a lot and last 7 minutes at least.

Edited by Someone
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2 hours ago, johnywoo said:

I would say arcane > fire due to cucking 1 lock to get into the proper group for crit auras.

I think good fire mage can do on par if not better damage than warlock on fights like Brutallus (assuming that fire mage has right gear). Fire brings unique debuff your raid can use while Arcane doesn't really bring anything of such sort.

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