Mists of Pandaria Remove earned conquest point requirement for PvP weapons

[Someone]

Because of scaling and the amount of PvP power (+other stats) PvP weapons give PvP without them is really dumb and makes healers unkillable so please just remove earned conquest point requirement for PvP weapons. Everyone should have their PvP weapon right from the start.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Someone

[ICritMyKilt]

Changing requirements for obtaining PvP weapons has already been discussed and the admins already gave reasons for why it would not happen.

[Someone]

On 12/26/2023 at 5:31 PM, ICritMyKilt said:

Changing requirements for obtaining PvP weapons has already been discussed and the admins already gave reasons for why it would not happen.

Where? Anyway those reasons must be bullshit cause how hard can it be to change something in vendor NPC? Admins here seem to hate PvP and want to kill it on purpose, just look at Aithne's comments on Discord. I have the weapon already so it wouldn't help me in any way but 3v3 queue is completely dead (both solo and team) and it's impossible to find anyone to play 2v2 with. 

[ICritMyKilt]

LyranVirgo brought it up in another forum post and the admins showed how his math was flawed and said they were not considering such a change.  They since have changed their position on the matter and have indicated that there are changes coming.  Changes to a vendor and what they sell and the cost are super easy changes to make, but the admins here do not make rash, short-sighted changes to the servers.  Changes are a slow process because they analyse the effects of the changes and do all the math and figure out all the long term effects the changes will have and weigh the good against the bad results and then make a change.  It is also discussed among the admins and changes are not just implemented by one admin making a decision that affects the whole server.

[Someone]

2 hours ago, ICritMyKilt said:

LyranVirgo brought it up in another forum post and the admins showed how his math was flawed and said they were not considering such a change.  They since have changed their position on the matter and have indicated that there are changes coming.  Changes to a vendor and what they sell and the cost are super easy changes to make, but the admins here do not make rash, short-sighted changes to the servers.  Changes are a slow process because they analyse the effects of the changes and do all the math and figure out all the long term effects the changes will have and weigh the good against the bad results and then make a change.  It is also discussed among the admins and changes are not just implemented by one admin making a decision that affects the whole server.

What kind of math do you need for it to realise OBVIOUS bullshit? Anyone who tried to play arena here without PvP weapon knows it's completely ridiculous and you don't need to do any complicated calcualtions to realise that. PvP weapon is literally 20-25% of your stats and you do insanely low damage without it making every single arena about 70% healing dampen. At this point anyone who cared enough already has weapon so any changes to it are too late at this point. That situation needed fast reaction instead of "slow process". There would be no harm done if people would be able to just get their 25% of PvP stats right from the start. You could say that weapon would be pre-BiS for dragon farmers but no one with a brain cares about it and it would actually be good for the server and PvP scene if dragon slayers would step into arena from time to time instead of dwelling in their safe space dragon den. 

Edited January 1 by Someone

[Aithne]

A lot of the extra damage you get is offset by the extra power that healers also get from their weapons. The main concern I brought up is that weapons are very likely to not do jackshit to benefit arena balance.

EDIT: And one important reason to be somewhat reluctant about giving people "easily farmable" weapons was PvE players mass wintrading for them, which, while at this point, is easily cleanable, our moderation tools still needed a tiny bit of development back then.

And the thing about wintrade related bullshit is that from a moderation standpoint, they are kind of whatever, unimportant, low priority if the proper tools exist (which, luckily, do exist now), and they are still tedious enough that nobody gets angry at the cleaning staff if they put the reports off by some amount of time, but OH MY FUCKING GOD are players extremely super upset about wintraders 0-24 if they just see ONE person on the ladder that they thinik should be removed from there.

[Someone]

2 hours ago, Aithne said:

A lot of the extra damage you get is offset by the extra power that healers also get from their weapons. The main concern I brought up is that weapons are very likely to not do jackshit to benefit arena balance.

EDIT: And one important reason to be somewhat reluctant about giving people "easily farmable" weapons was PvE players mass wintrading for them, which, while at this point, is easily cleanable, our moderation tools still needed a tiny bit of development back then.

And the thing about wintrade related bullshit is that from a moderation standpoint, they are kind of whatever, unimportant, low priority if the proper tools exist (which, luckily, do exist now), and they are still tedious enough that nobody gets angry at the cleaning staff if they put the reports off by some amount of time, but OH MY FUCKING GOD are players extremely super upset about wintraders 0-24 if they just see ONE person on the ladder that they thinik should be removed from there.

Healers don't nearly get as much benefit for healing from PvP weapons as damage dealers do and the fact you bring this up LIKE THAT proves you have low understanding of arenas. It's not just about raw damage and healing you can put out, it's a lot about damage and healing in relation to CC chains and kill windows. Yes, healers with PvP weapons will heal for about 8-10% more but if double DPS comp focus him during good CC chain on BOTH enemies they can actually kill him because of that 20-25% extra damage they can put out. Without that no matter how good CC set up you create you are NEVER killing anything until significant healing dampen and this is very stupid and anti-skill even though arenas (or PvP in general) should be all about who is playing better/has better tactic. Keep in mind that healers are often supposed to deal damage as well in arenas during kill windows so them having a weapon also increases the chances of a given target getting bursted.

When it comes to wintrading I'm not sure what you're getting at. Of course it's all about someone earning a rank/rating they're not supposed to have, that's what wintrading is for. It's natural lower rated wintrading doesn't matter nearly as much as top ladder ones because top rated players are supposed to be the best and be an example/inspiration to those who aspire to climb up there so if someone is top in ladder because of unfair wintrading that ruins the entire consistency and point of playing arenas. This is why I'd argue people in top ranks who were proven to wintrade should be punished harsher than someone who wintraded at 2k rating for example. 

[Crysis]

I already adressed that.

Closing.