Realm: Netherwing PvP destroyed

[WarDru]

Hello, PVP is dying and so is this server... a shot in the foot? S4 items for free? did pvp players get anything from BT/SWP for free? No one plays arenas at level 2k anymore because there is no point... where, as a rule, weapons encouraged people to play arenas to get this rating because they gave bursts? did all free items eliminate boosters? rather pvp players for whom there is no point in playing because frames don't provide much improvement anyway? next thing... how are new players supposed to increase their rating when the people who achieved their ratings create a new team sometimes 3 times a day? 20g per team? that's a laugh... maybe in season 1... maybe it's time to make one team cost 400g? then they will spend once, but they will stay in one team and play on their own installment.... and not make a new team after 2 tickets and be happy that they are pushing people from the 1.7 installment.... Please think about pvp, because in this respect you have killed the server .... I'm not writing here to criticize, just to do something in the pvp aspect..... because so far they have got everything possible and what burst gives pve players.... are pve players better? maybe SWP items for fights? it will also be only a matter of time to buy a WEPA, as in the case of WEPA S4..... funny, isn't it? Exactly..... Regards

[WarDru]

 

Maybe the administration will comment on the state of pvp on the server? Is there any plan to do something about it? do you just have to play and not whine until it all fails completely? ;D

[Hemoride]

I also would like to see an answer / attention here

[PeterNemo]

People arent making several teams a day - they are tanking their team rating, getting gear and fighting "noobs" while wearing S4.

[ICritMyKilt]

None of it is "free".  Nerfing the cost of the gear is an incentive to get more people to participate in PvP.  I see a lot of complaints in BGs because there are PvE people with little to no PvP gear in the BG.  Getting more people into BGs reduces the queue time.  Having all the PvE players in the BGs getting better PvP gear means they may survive longer and give them more enjoyment and hope when it comes to BGs which means more practice so they get better at it.  All of the upgrading gear and improvements from the extra practice would mean a S4 vs S4 BG that is more evenly matched and challenging for everyone.

[Hemoride]

19 hours ago, ICritMyKilt said:

None of it is "free".  Nerfing the cost of the gear is an incentive to get more people to participate in PvP.  I see a lot of complaints in BGs because there are PvE people with little to no PvP gear in the BG.  Getting more people into BGs reduces the queue time.  Having all the PvE players in the BGs getting better PvP gear means they may survive longer and give them more enjoyment and hope when it comes to BGs which means more practice so they get better at it.  All of the upgrading gear and improvements from the extra practice would mean a S4 vs S4 BG that is more evenly matched and challenging for everyone.

thats actually all true,..never was a fan of the "Oh no greens plz" ,..you have to start somewhere ,..and BGs were originally meant to gear up ,..

Noone read my post about algo it seems,..i am not a fan of the cross faction BG ,..as it amplifies negative human psychological treats ,...anyways, if it stay, then at least the Q algo should be smart enough to place the players in each team , so there is roundabout an equal teram gear score archived ,...will make it at least a bit challenging / ionteresting 

I am juzst coming from one EOS ,..1 team most greans,..other team most epic / pvp ,....i was in greens team ,..before that it was similar ,..but i was in epic team ,.... 1 win 1 loss ,..but 2 times no much fun ,..as these kind of matches are just garbarge ,..... no challenge at all ,.....

[ICritMyKilt]

I did read your stuff about balancing based on gear score.  If they wanted to add in a gear check, they could create a weighted priority system for scoring gear based on item level and whether it is PvE or PvP gear, but I don't think that would yield good results.  If I do enough BGs and lose enough arenas, eventually I will have a full set of PvP gear, that doesn't mean that I will be any good at it or contribute as much as someone in lesser gear than me.  I'm not saying it is a bad idea, but I am saying that I don't think it would create a perfect PvP utopia.  I was also thinking about what if we took into account PvP history, so your HK/KB/D/W/L could affect the team arrangements, but then I thought about what that would actually do.  I think the history wouldn't really help any because no one has a history that really shows their own personal ability.  You might have ended up on a green team or a brutal team and whether you were good or not the skill and gear of the rest of your team played a big part.  Eventually, if all this rebalancing worked then everyone's history should start normalizing and wouldn't really matter anymore.  Then there is the fact that the available players have to be balancable.  Let's say we have 20 people queued for WSG, but the majority are in greens except for this one 2.2k+ full brutal guy.  How do you balance 2 teams of under-geared and inexperienced people and that one ringer?  It's like going to Oz and picking teams in munchkin land for a basketball game and then Michael Jordan shows up and asks which team he can be on.

TL;DR

I don't know a good solution, or if one even really exists, but I am pretty sure we haven't found it yet.

[Hemoride]

12 hours ago, ICritMyKilt said:

I did read your stuff about balancing based on gear score.  If they wanted to add in a gear check, they could create a weighted priority system for scoring gear based on item level and whether it is PvE or PvP gear, but I don't think that would yield good results.  If I do enough BGs and lose enough arenas, eventually I will have a full set of PvP gear, that doesn't mean that I will be any good at it or contribute as much as someone in lesser gear than me.  I'm not saying it is a bad idea, but I am saying that I don't think it would create a perfect PvP utopia.  I was also thinking about what if we took into account PvP history, so your HK/KB/D/W/L could affect the team arrangements, but then I thought about what that would actually do.  I think the history wouldn't really help any because no one has a history that really shows their own personal ability.  You might have ended up on a green team or a brutal team and whether you were good or not the skill and gear of the rest of your team played a big part.  Eventually, if all this rebalancing worked then everyone's history should start normalizing and wouldn't really matter anymore.  Then there is the fact that the available players have to be balancable.  Let's say we have 20 people queued for WSG, but the majority are in greens except for this one 2.2k+ full brutal guy.  How do you balance 2 teams of under-geared and inexperienced people and that one ringer?  It's like going to Oz and picking teams in munchkin land for a basketball game and then Michael Jordan shows up and asks which team he can be on.

TL;DR

I don't know a good solution, or if one even really exists, but I am pretty sure we haven't found it yet.

I didnt meant to balance it total equal in skill and gear,..thats not realistic / overkill / wishdream  ...... I just meant take a simple approach to not worsen a already existing normal problem. 

1) cross faction BGs do have some Algo to decide where to put which player 
2) so just lets take that Algo and mod in in our favor, means: 
2a) cross faction BG should be equal in player numbers on both sides (now I still see matches starting 1v5,..thats crap, could easy start 3v3 instead)
2b) simple method to balance out too big gear differences is team gearscore (actually i dont care if pvp, or pve gear,..its just meant to split the new total ungeared player fairly across both teams,...then thats more fun for everyone,...now its just random)

= these little simple changes would already make it more enjoyable and actuaally take advantage of cross faction (same people count on both teams, equal gearscore teams)

I am staying realistic here,...I want simple methods to be sure it can be done without too much effort, while still archiving improvment (no utopia attempt) 

(next level would be to equal place healers in both teams ,..but I guess thats too close to the "hard to realize / overkill" area)

Edited July 13 by Hemoride

[ICritMyKilt]

I agree that splitting the healers equitably would be very difficult because how do you determine a healer?  The person wearing +heal gear?  I have some pieces of that in my boomkin set because my druid is crap geared.  The person who is specced at least half their points in resto/holy talents? What if I was questing in my DPS spec and switch once I am in the BG?  In a perfect world, there would be an option to queue as Healer/DPS (maybe even FC) and all these different metrics would be considered to make it as close to that utopian balanced, fair game, but that is limited by the dev team's time and where all this balance falls on their priority list.  Maybe some QoL changes will bubble up to the top of the priority list.  Only time will tell.

[Tsu]

As @ICritMyKilt already said, it's quite hard to determine if a character is a healer or not without a proper role selection on que.
Right now there is no good solution regarding this issue.

I see a valid point behind implementing some sort of "pvp gear scoring" to automatically balance team power. With crossfaction battlegrounds working this might be possible to do for or during next fresh.