Burning Crusade PVE Items For ingame Currency

[endgame]

Hello :) I would like to present to you my idea and open a discussion about what could help the Server to gain more players, gain Longevity and make gameplay more. How should I say it? Maybe Persistent is the right word.

 

Here is my and my friends problem what made many of them quit playing this server: 

Not enough Time to play PVE. That way we have no chance to get PVE trinkets, rings, amulets, weapons. and that is very demotivating. Cuz it  would make PVP more enjoyable and fun and I believe it's not just us who have this problem.

 

This is how I and many other players I spoke with see things:

 

TBC wow is a nostalgic game for many of us. I played this game for 6 straight years in my teenage years and I have very good memories. That's why I started it again after 11 years of not playing it.

So far 90% of the players I spoke with are over 30 years old. 

And as many of us are husbands and fathers we just do not have the time to participate in PVE raids that take 4-5-6 hours to get some PVE items that would make us very very happy.

 

I honestly and strongly believe that if those PVE offset items would be Available for some reasonable price it would make the server grow and make players stick to playing 

 

In my understanding the Server staff do not want to make these items available for donation /real money

but it could be made available for BOJ, marks, arena points, honor, rating etc. 

So those players who have no time to participate in Long raids have the Hope and motivation to play and achieve the items they are eager for. 

 

I personally Contacted some PVE guilds if they would be willing to help my char and get those offset PVE items for me for gold and mostly their reaction was negative and said That those trinkets and rings have very small drop chance.

So I couldn't find a way to get those items even with that solution.

 

I would Like to ask the GM very nicely to Think about it. I know that I am not the only person who is asking them this.

[Matick]

You are asking essentially to earn raid items without actually raiding, not too sure if that is the way to go... then people would not have much reason to raid in the first place?

[endgame]

I always thought Players do raids Cuz they want to do raids Not just for the items. Cuz they want to experience the atmosphere.

[Matick]

That makes no sense at all, of course people do raid for the gear, it is the primary motivating factor.

[ICritMyKilt]

That would have the complete opposite effect of what you suggest it would.  That would completely kill the server.  People play PvE for gear, that's what keeps them coming back week after week.  If you made the gear available without putting in the time and effort then it loses its appeal.  The war glaives are far less valuable and appealing if everyone can go spend a few BoJ or some honor and get a pair.  Servers die after the last patch hits and the core raid guilds put the last raid on farm.  With no new gear and content to see, people get bored and wander off.  No one wants to sit around shatt flexing their uber gear if everyone else is wearing it too and if you take away the reason for raiding and they can't flex on the rest of us because they are better geared then they'll leave.

I remember back when I started raiding Karazhan and it took us hours and we couldn't complete all the bosses in one evening and it was a struggle.  Fast forward to me in full T6 clearing black temple in a single evening and one night we went and 5-man Karazhan for kicks and grins.  After we did it then another 5-man team formed in the raid group and it became a race to drop raid after BT and form our 5-man and go clear Karazhan first.  We did that a handful of times before that lost its charm as well, but the point I am making is that the point of PvE is to complete the challenge and earn the gear and if you take the challenge and the gear out of it then people quit putting in the effort and the server dies.

[Crysis]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:30 PM, endgame said:

I always thought Players do raids Cuz they want to do raids Not just for the items. Cuz they want to experience the atmosphere.

You would have been right 20 years ago. 😛

[ICritMyKilt]

5 minutes ago, Crysis said:

You would have been right 20 years ago. 😛

Even if what you really want is to see content, you can't do it without better gear, so gear has always been a focus even if it wasn't your sole obsession.  You also have those that don't care about content and would have gladly paid a GM to give them loot so they could just sit around a capital city and flex on those that didn't have the super cool, ultra rare gear without having to actually play their luck with the RNG and do the raid.  There are also those that would do the raid, but they want to walk into Kara in their full T6 that they bought so they don't have to actually work for it and risk wipes.

Even back in the early days, I don't think they could have released a new raid and said, "Here's a new raid with new bosses, but no drops." and gotten the majority of players to willingly participate in wipe fests.  Sure you'd get attempts, unlike now, and even some of the more hardcore guilds would push it for bragging rights, but not just for the experience.  If it were just about seeing the fight and defeating the boss then guilds would only do it once, not farm it. "Oh look it is the same boss in the same spot we killed him last week...ooohhh....aaaahhhh....wwwwoooowwww..."

[endgame]

On 4/3/2024 at 10:43 PM, ICritMyKilt said:

That would have the complete opposite effect of what you suggest it would.  That would completely kill the server.  People play PvE for gear, that's what keeps them coming back week after week.  If you made the gear available without putting in the time and effort then it loses its appeal.  The war glaives are far less valuable and appealing if everyone can go spend a few BoJ or some honor and get a pair.  Servers die after the last patch hits and the core raid guilds put the last raid on farm.  With no new gear and content to see, people get bored and wander off.  No one wants to sit around shatt flexing their uber gear if everyone else is wearing it too and if you take away the reason for raiding and they can't flex on the rest of us because they are better geared then they'll leave.

I remember back when I started raiding Karazhan and it took us hours and we couldn't complete all the bosses in one evening and it was a struggle.  Fast forward to me in full T6 clearing black temple in a single evening and one night we went and 5-man Karazhan for kicks and grins.  After we did it then another 5-man team formed in the raid group and it became a race to drop raid after BT and form our 5-man and go clear Karazhan first.  We did that a handful of times before that lost its charm as well, but the point I am making is that the point of PvE is to complete the challenge and earn the gear and if you take the challenge and the gear out of it then people quit putting in the effort and the server dies.

 

On 4/3/2024 at 10:43 PM, ICritMyKilt said:

That would have the complete opposite effect of what you suggest it would.  That would completely kill the server.  People play PvE for gear, that's what keeps them coming back week after week.  If you made the gear available without putting in the time and effort then it loses its appeal.  The war glaives are far less valuable and appealing if everyone can go spend a few BoJ or some honor and get a pair.  Servers die after the last patch hits and the core raid guilds put the last raid on farm.  With no new gear and content to see, people get bored and wander off.  No one wants to sit around shatt flexing their uber gear if everyone else is wearing it too and if you take away the reason for raiding and they can't flex on the rest of us because they are better geared then they'll leave.

I remember back when I started raiding Karazhan and it took us hours and we couldn't complete all the bosses in one evening and it was a struggle.  Fast forward to me in full T6 clearing black temple in a single evening and one night we went and 5-man Karazhan for kicks and grins.  After we did it then another 5-man team formed in the raid group and it became a race to drop raid after BT and form our 5-man and go clear Karazhan first.  We did that a handful of times before that lost its charm as well, but the point I am making is that the point of PvE is to complete the challenge and earn the gear and if you take the challenge and the gear out of it then people quit putting in the effort and the server dies.

Ok let me pour out my thoughts again

first of all
I don’t know why everyone thinks I want to make T6 and glaives available 

yes I mention weapons but I don’t think legendary 

And I write 

I honestly and strongly believe that if those PVE OFFSET items would be Available for some reasonable price it would make the server grow and make players stick to playing 

I do not mention T6 and legendaries or any flex great at all

just offset stuff like rings, trinkets

Again

I played on one server for 6 straight years without getting bored 

why?

Because 

the offset item were available for reasonable in-game grind which made it possible for people who had no time to go for 6 hour raids 6 time a week to put in the time and grind 

with a simple solution of distributing that time to smaller pieces but all together the work is in.

That made possible for players to be motivated to play longer create more alts etc. because those items were achievable.

I am honestly curious what is that time frame or repetition what a player finds enjoyable to play one raid again and again and again for the boss to drop the item and then he has to compete with others who want that item too which in a 25 person raid group could be easily 5 players

that would mean what? if the item has a 20% drop rate 

In 10 raids you get the drop 2 times and then you have 20% chance on winning that item against those who compete with you if you are on a rolling system (idk Back in the time we use DKP points)

It would mean that if you are unlucky you have to do the same raid 50 times and let’s not count with the variable that on every raid there can be new 5 players who want that same item 😂

I mean it’s ridiculous and near insanity 

and you know what the definition of insanity is? 
doing the same thing all over again while expecting a different outcome

Doing BT and SWP for a few times is magical and awesome but doing it 100x is not anymore.

Anyway I think everyone knows how hard is to get BiS pve gear and how lengthy it is 

and also I think everyone agrees that doing the same thing 100x again and again can burn you out (that was the biggest issue with TBC and reputation farming) 

Again I am not saying to make Flex Gear available for BOJ or any different currency 

let the PVE players have their flex gear and the PVP players have theirs too

me as a PVP player I don’t care about PVE flex gear 

But I highly care about PVE offsets 

like Ring of ancient knowledge or Coral band of the revived 

or just recipes like loop of forged power

and yes the main trigger items like skull of guldan and memento of tyrande

So to put an end on this post 

If I would manage a server and would like to keep players playing and hooked from a psychological perspective 

This is what I would do 

Let the PVE and PVP players have their flex gear what is only achievable by grinding/skill

also give them some unique title for achieving something (like clearing BT without a Wipe etc) (PVP already has some titles)

Increase repu gain to 5-7x

increase drop rate by 2-3x

make PvE offsets available for PVP players for either Rating and arena points or create Weekly PVP challenges like where you achieve some marks and then you can spend them for PVE items

Thank you all for your attention 

Peace and Long Live Stormforge 💪🏼

 

 

 

[ICritMyKilt]

On 4/11/2024 at 5:17 AM, endgame said:

 

Ok let me pour out my thoughts again

first of all
I don’t know why everyone thinks I want to make T6 and glaives available 

yes I mention weapons but I don’t think legendary 

And I write 

I honestly and strongly believe that if those PVE OFFSET items would be Available for some reasonable price it would make the server grow and make players stick to playing 

I do not mention T6 and legendaries or any flex great at all

just offset stuff like rings, trinkets

Again

I played on one server for 6 straight years without getting bored 

why?

Because 

the offset item were available for reasonable in-game grind which made it possible for people who had no time to go for 6 hour raids 6 time a week to put in the time and grind 

with a simple solution of distributing that time to smaller pieces but all together the work is in.

That made possible for players to be motivated to play longer create more alts etc. because those items were achievable.

I am honestly curious what is that time frame or repetition what a player finds enjoyable to play one raid again and again and again for the boss to drop the item and then he has to compete with others who want that item too which in a 25 person raid group could be easily 5 players

that would mean what? if the item has a 20% drop rate 

In 10 raids you get the drop 2 times and then you have 20% chance on winning that item against those who compete with you if you are on a rolling system (idk Back in the time we use DKP points)

It would mean that if you are unlucky you have to do the same raid 50 times and let’s not count with the variable that on every raid there can be new 5 players who want that same item 😂

I mean it’s ridiculous and near insanity 

and you know what the definition of insanity is? 
doing the same thing all over again while expecting a different outcome

Doing BT and SWP for a few times is magical and awesome but doing it 100x is not anymore.

Anyway I think everyone knows how hard is to get BiS pve gear and how lengthy it is 

and also I think everyone agrees that doing the same thing 100x again and again can burn you out (that was the biggest issue with TBC and reputation farming) 

Again I am not saying to make Flex Gear available for BOJ or any different currency 

let the PVE players have their flex gear and the PVP players have theirs too

me as a PVP player I don’t care about PVE flex gear 

But I highly care about PVE offsets 

like Ring of ancient knowledge or Coral band of the revived 

or just recipes like loop of forged power

and yes the main trigger items like skull of guldan and memento of tyrande

So to put an end on this post 

If I would manage a server and would like to keep players playing and hooked from a psychological perspective 

This is what I would do 

Let the PVE and PVP players have their flex gear what is only achievable by grinding/skill

also give them some unique title for achieving something (like clearing BT without a Wipe etc) (PVP already has some titles)

Increase repu gain to 5-7x

increase drop rate by 2-3x

make PvE offsets available for PVP players for either Rating and arena points or create Weekly PVP challenges like where you achieve some marks and then you can spend them for PVE items

Thank you all for your attention 

Peace and Long Live Stormforge 💪🏼

 

 

 

People don't keep playing because they already won.  Buying gear does not make people want to keep playing, it makes them want to quit.  There is an expression that it is about the journey not the destination.  People grind those raids to top the charts and get new gear for themselves and their raid group.  Instead of raising the XP/rep rates, why don't we just start everyone at level 70 with a decent blue set of gear?  We could save a ton of time if you don't have to actually level and you can just do end-game content. I know a lot of people actually turn off the XP bonus and level at blizz rate.  It's all about personal preference, but my point still stands.  If you make it too easy, people will quit instead of a big surge of new players or players staying.  We play games for entertainment, for a challenge and the feeling you get from overcoming that challenge.

I do not agree with you, but I hope you can find a way to still obtain gear even if time constrains your play.

[cib]

我猜你的意思是这样的：目前，玩家大多是没有时间或精力突袭地下城的中年人。从目前服务器上地下城突袭的进度来看，大多数人只能突袭H地下城。所以，你的意思是添加一个像正义代币这样的系统，它允许没有时间的玩家通过花一点时间来赚取地牢装备。这样，每个人都可以得到他们想要的东西，然后添加一个保证物品掉落的机制，正如我所经历的那样。我每天都会突袭H魔法师的平台，但我总是能得到治疗药水。我梦寐以求的坦克物品永远不会掉落。这导致我考虑退出游戏。因此，有必要在正义代币交换地下城装备的基础上增加一个有保证的物品掉落机制。此外，可以增加可以用正义代币交换的装备的种类和数量，让各种类型的人都能愉快地享受游戏。

[Tsu]

22 hours ago, cib said:

我猜你的意思是这样的：目前，玩家大多是没有时间或精力突袭地下城的中年人。从目前服务器上地下城突袭的进度来看，大多数人只能突袭H地下城。所以，你的意思是添加一个像正义代币这样的系统，它允许没有时间的玩家通过花一点时间来赚取地牢装备。这样，每个人都可以得到他们想要的东西，然后添加一个保证物品掉落的机制，正如我所经历的那样。我每天都会突袭H魔法师的平台，但我总是能得到治疗药水。我梦寐以求的坦克物品永远不会掉落。这导致我考虑退出游戏。因此，有必要在正义代币交换地下城装备的基础上增加一个有保证的物品掉落机制。此外，可以增加可以用正义代币交换的装备的种类和数量，让各种类型的人都能愉快地享受游戏。

I understand how not receiving an important tank upgrade might be something worth quitting a game over. I will bring a "bad luck protection" (BLP) topic up and we'll think if there is anything that can be done regarding this issue.

We do not think that making all dungeon and raid PvE items available for badges of justice is a good change.

I believe only limiting it to a more desired items (like a tank trinket from MGT) for a higher price sounds way better and more reasonable (in my personal opinion).

[cib]

你的想法更有意义，我明白，我会继续支持你！

[cib]

2024 年 4 月 28 日上午 11：12，Tsu 说：

我理解没有收到重要的坦克升级可能值得退出游戏。我将提出一个“厄运保护”（BLP）话题，我们会考虑是否可以对这个问题做些什么。

我们不认为让所有地牢和突袭 PvE 物品都可用于正义徽章是一个好的改变。

我相信仅将其限制为更理想的物品（例如 MGT 的坦克饰品）以更高的价格听起来更好、更合理（在我个人看来）。

你的想法更有意义，我明白，我会继续支持你！

[ICritMyKilt]

The chance drop rate is what keeps people grinding dungeons.  If they can farm BoJ where ever and then be guaranteed the tank trinket or healing cloak of DPS weapon with the low drop chance then there is no point to farming dungeons.  I only need to run whatever enough times to get the badges that I need for the gear I want.  We have some gear from BoJ already which fills gaps and helps with progressing into higher tiers of raiding.  Adding rare dungeon gear to that list would be a huge mistake.  Why farm the harder heroic like MGT to get that rare drop when you can farm badges running the easiest heroics and raids and then just buy the gear you want? Why not just make the AH BoJ/gold/HP/AP and sell all the gear in the game right there?  If you can farm enough currency then you can just buy full MH/BT/SWP BiS and automatically win.  While your at it, let's have all the in-game pets and mounts and stuff in there too.  No need to play the game, just convert the website currency into gold and buy whatever you want from the AH.